Ann Kerian, an author, executive coach, & consultant joined Brian for a candid discussion on managing older employees. The episode is full of practical tips and personal insights. Brian and Ann explore strategies for building respect across generations, avoiding common pitfalls, and leveraging diverse strengths in the workplace. It's a must-listen for leaders who, whether formally or informally, lead team members that are older than them.

The Audio/Podcast

References In This Episode

• The 5 generations in the workforce now:

  • Traditionalists-born 1925 to 1945.

  • Baby Boomers-born 1946 to 1964.

  • Generation X-born 1965 to 1980.

  • Millennials-born 1981 to 2000.

  • Generation Z-born 2001 to 2020.

• The link to the 1st episode where Brian shared the story behind “learning by committee” at the 1-minute mark.

• AnnKerian.com

Episode Digest

In today's diverse workplace, it's increasingly common for younger professionals to find themselves leading teams that include older, more experienced colleagues. This dynamic can present unique challenges, but also offers valuable opportunities for growth and collaboration. Let's explore some key strategies for effectively managing across generations, with a focus on how younger leaders can navigate these relationships successfully.

Building a Foundation of Respect and Communication

The cornerstone of any successful leadership approach, regardless of age differences, is establishing a foundation of mutual respect and open communication. When stepping into a leadership role where you're managing older team members, it's crucial to start by acknowledging the wealth of experience and knowledge they bring to the table.

One effective approach is to schedule one-on-one meetings with each team member early on. Use these meetings to:

1. Learn about their career goals and aspirations

2. Understand their strengths and preferred working styles

3. Ask about their past experiences and what they've learned

4. Inquire about any concerns or challenges they foresee

By taking this proactive step, you're demonstrating respect for their experience while also setting the stage for open, ongoing communication. Remember, the goal is to create an environment where everyone feels valued and heard.

Leveraging Strengths and Experience

A key insight for younger managers is to recognize and leverage the strengths of older team members. Rather than focusing on potential technology gaps or differences in working styles, look for ways to utilize their deep industry knowledge, refined problem-solving skills, and established professional networks.

Consider implementing a reverse mentoring program, where younger and older employees can learn from each other. This approach not only helps bridge generational gaps but also fosters a culture of continuous learning and mutual respect.

Implement a "strength-spotting" exercise within your team. Have each member identify and share their top skills and areas of expertise. Use this information to inform project assignments and team collaborations. This is especially effective in situations where you’re leading a project but do not have any formal authority over the people you’re leading, such as a project manager.

Navigating Technology and Change

One common challenge in managing older team members is addressing potential technology gaps. It's important to approach this sensitively and avoid making assumptions about an individual's tech skills based on their age.

When introducing new technologies or processes:

1. Provide comprehensive training for all team members, regardless of age

2. Offer multiple learning formats (e.g., written guides, video tutorials, hands-on workshops)

3. Create a supportive environment where questions are encouraged

4. Pair tech-savvy team members with those who may need extra support

Remember, resistance to new technologies often stems from a lack of confidence rather than inability. By providing adequate support and emphasizing the benefits of new tools, you can help all team members embrace change.

"Don't just expect me to go home and read a book and do it because I might learn better if I come in and I hear somebody or I might learn better by watching. So keep in mind that not only are you teaching people who are older, but you're teaching people who are different in learning styles."

Avoiding Age-Based Assumptions

One of the most critical aspects of managing across generations is avoiding age-based stereotypes and assumptions. This applies to both older and younger team members. Resist the urge to categorize individuals based on their generational cohort, and instead focus on each person's unique skills, experiences, and working preferences.

Actionable Takeaway: Create a "working preferences" document for your team. Have each member outline their preferred communication methods, working hours, feedback style, and other relevant preferences. Share this document team-wide to promote understanding and effective collaboration.

Establishing Authority Without Overemphasizing Position

For younger managers, it can be tempting to frequently assert your position to establish authority. However, this approach often backfires, creating resentment rather than respect. Instead, focus on demonstrating your leadership through actions:

1. Be consistent in your decision-making

2. Follow through on commitments

3. Admit when you don't know something and seek input from the team

4. Give credit where it's due and publicly acknowledge team members' contributions

Remember, your team already knows you're the manager. Your goal should be to earn their respect through your actions and decisions, not by constantly reminding them of your title.

Notable Quote: "If you are somebody that has to announce yourself, then you don't have the kind of respect that you probably need to be in that position."

Embracing Continuous Learning

As a younger leader managing older team members, it's essential to maintain a growth mindset and demonstrate your commitment to continuous learning. This not only helps you develop as a leader but also sets a positive example for your team.

Seek out mentorship opportunities, both within and outside your organization. Don't be afraid to ask for advice or guidance from more experienced colleagues, including those you manage. This demonstrates humility and a genuine desire to grow, which can earn you respect from team members of all ages.

Notable Quote: "I'm not coming to you as somebody who knows everything and how to treat people. Because a lot of times it was me who wasn't either treating people well or being treated well."

A Unique Challenge, And A Tremendous Opportunity

Managing across generations presents unique challenges, but it also offers tremendous opportunities for growth, innovation, and collaboration. By focusing on open communication, mutual respect, and leveraging diverse strengths, younger leaders can successfully navigate these dynamics and build high-performing, cohesive teams.

Remember, effective leadership transcends age. It's about creating an environment where all team members feel valued, heard, and empowered to contribute their best work. By implementing the strategies discussed here and maintaining a mindset of continuous learning and adaptability, you can thrive as a leader, regardless of the age dynamics within your team.

Today’s Guest

Ann Kerian
Author, Executive Coach & Consultant

Ann's 15 years of experience as a television anchor led her on to a career offering consulting, motivational speaking, authoring, fundraising, recruiting, and coaching services. A member of the National Speakers Association and International Coach Federation, Ann provides individual and group coaching as an executive and life coach. She has worked at KWWL-TV in Iowa, WEAR-TV in Florida, and WCTI-TV in North Carolina, handling significant roles such as co-anchoring and covering military affairs and health stories. Ann is recognized as one of Cedar Valley's top 20 under 40 business leaders and has served on multiple advisory boards and committees. She currently consults for Mile Bluff Medical Center, manages talent acquisition for Straight Forward, and produces internal PR videos for John Deere. Ann co-authored “Mastering the Art of Success” with prominent authors.

Website: annkerian.com

Facebook: facebook.com/annkerianllc

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/ann-kerian-0626104

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About The Creator/Host: I’m Brian. At age 4, I was diagnosed with insulin dependent (type 1) diabetes and told that my life was going to be 10-20 years shorter than everyone else. As a kid I took time for granted, but now as an adult, time is the most precious thing that I have. After spending a career hands-on in the trenches as a senior project manager, I now help others to level-up through my Productivity Gladiator training. These Gladiators wield email management superpowers, a laser-guided ability to focus, samurai-grade prioritization skills, a sniper-precise task tracking approach, Jedi time management skills, and a secret sauce for maximizing their personal life balance. If what you’ve seen here intrigues you, reach out, let’s chat! Time is the currency of your life, spend it wisely.

Transcript

Brian Nelson-Palmer (00:03.782)

I'm Brian Nelson Palmer on this show, I share personal practical productivity skills. And In this episode, we're talking about bridging generations and it's the tactics for managing people that are older than you. Man, I've been really interested in this topic for most of my career because I've had, I've managed a lot of people that are older than me and it's a challenge and an interesting new skillset. And with me on the show today is Ann Kerian who's an author, executive coach and a consultant

on this topic. Ann thanks so much for joining me on the show today.

Ann Kerian (00:38.826)

Thanks so much for having me. I do love this topic as well, Especially with so many different generations in the workforce right now. It comes up all the time. It is going to be around for a long time, too.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (00:51.046)

Say a bit about your background now and how it relates to our topic today. You've talked about this before, I assume?

Ann Kerian (00:59.146)

But you know, When I get people calling me and asking me, you know, I need somebody to come in and do some kind of motivational speech for my association, for my staff, whatever it may be, And usually I'll kind of give them a list of things that I have, but for the most part, I'll say, what do you want them to learn? What do you want them to walk away with? And what are your pain points? And it almost always comes down to just the basic people getting along at work.

And so then I'll talk about how many different generations do you have? Yes, we do have that. now that you say that, yes, we have a lot of different generations and we have people who are retiring and they're supposed to be mentoring people coming in new. So it does come to flows to the top of a lot of topics that are chosen because it's across the board. This is not obviously doesn't isn't particular to any type of industry. It's everybody. We all have to get along at work.

And it's not always easy.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (02:00.157)

And with this one, so there's a lot of folks that talk about leadership and certainly other people who have talked about the topic of managing people from other generations or people older than you. So what would you say makes you a bit different from other folks who also do this?

Ann Kerian (02:18.026)

Well, I've lived it. I'm on obviously the older end of the workforce now, which is very difficult for me to say, Brian. I can't believe it. So just being honest here, I'm in my mid fifties and you know, I was once the young person that knew everything. I mean, I knew everything. You can even ask the people that worked with me at my first place of employment, which was a television station in Minot, North Dakota.

My general manager at the time Wayne Sanders We had a conversation one time because I was always in his office with new ideas or my news director's office And he said, you know, and I just don't think life is ever going to go as fast as you want it. He's like you just need to slow down and I was I've been told that my my whole life so he was he was spot -on, but I I'm very disclosing about that. I'm not coming to you

as somebody who knows everything and how to treat people. Because a lot of times it was me who wasn't either treating people well or being treated well. And so I think the fact that I can come from all angles probably makes me a little bit more unique. Some people are maybe on the younger end and they're just talking about how hard it is for them, or they're on the older end and they're saying, here's how you should treat us. I can see it both ways. And that's probably why it's such a popular topic for me.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (03:42.374)

Yeah. And you certainly speak about this too, when you go into businesses and different clients that you've worked with, this is a topic that's come up a lot. Yeah.

Ann Kerian (03:52.106)

All the time. All the time. It's like I said, everybody has issues with this. And a lot of it they'll say is, you know, well, we have some personality problems. Or, you know, somebody will call and say, you know, I have an issue because I have a lot of people who are now in managerial positions who were probably previously they were with their peers and now they're managing them or now they're managing people who are older.

And I'll say, well, you know, give me an example of what happened. And so one of the stories was a woman who was a manager. She had hired how she describes it, a young hotshot, which I'm sure older people do say that always just a young hotshot kid or whatever. But he was he was a young hotshot kid. They knew his stuff. Well, he wanted to have a meeting with her. And so since one of the things millennials are tagged with is that the world doesn't happen.

fast enough for them, much like me when I was that age. They want things fast, fast, fast, right? So he just would walk in her office, like all the time. Whenever he needed anything, he would just walk by, kind of throw a question at her, and then he'd walk away. And so she had talked with her manager and HR saying, you know, I can't deal with this kid. And they're like, he's so bright. He's got so many great ideas. And she's like, don't care. I don't care about any of that.

I care about how he's interrupting me during my work day and I'm trying to focus on things and he thinks I'm just there for him whenever he needs help. And he said, well, I don't think it's that and we do have an open door policy. Well, what it came down to was when I came in to consult that company and that office in particular, I just got them both in the room and we talked about what their wants and needs were as far as that scenario specifically.

So what it came down to, young hot shot kid, experienced manager, she basically said, I just really need you to schedule a time to see me. She's like, send me an email. Now everybody has calendars out there, right? Just find a space on my calendar. I think you did that to me, Brian. I was like, when do you want to get together? Because I'm old school. And you were like, here's my calendar. So that has been new the last five years or so.

Ann Kerian (06:18.41)

So she's like, just find a time on my calendar so I can focus on what you're saying and asking of me. You might think you need to know right now, but I'm not going to be any good to you when you're just bopping in and out and I'm not prepared for our conversation. And he was like, I am so sorry. You know, I didn't know that. That makes a lot of sense to me. I just know that you have the answers, you know, somewhat complimenting her.

Ann Kerian (06:48.33)

I know you have the answers. So I was hoping I could just swing by, not take much of your time. And it's really all about communication, which is the number one problem in the workforce today.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (07:03.11)

True story across all the generations. And you know, you talked about the story for me. This is a personal story for me as well. I'll never forget when I started my career, I was the young hotshot manager that you're talking about. I got promoted up pretty quickly and I'll never forget that I was transferred to Boca Raton, Florida, which if you're familiar is certainly got its stereotypes for some of the older generation settling there after retirement and

Ann Kerian (07:06.314)

True story. Yeah.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (07:31.59)

I I was 22 years old and my whole staff at the store was in their 60s or older. I think maybe a couple were in their 50s. Everybody else was 60s. So many of them had grandkids that were approaching, you know, my generation or my age. And so it was Walking in there. I'll never forget when they said you have to, I want you to sit down and do performance meetings.

with these, it was a sales job. It was at a city furniture, actually furniture store. And so the staff was there and I was a showroom manager and my gosh, you mean I'm going to sit down and tell, I mean, these people are going to laugh me out of the store if I'm going to tell them what to do. or how to do. And so it's that managing people that are older than you, especially people that are a generation or more older than you. That's something that a lot of folks have to face, but until you do it, it's a challenge and it can be intimidating. So I want to give some real

practical answers to that, because I learned the hard way and learned a lot of those things. And I know you've talked about it too. So I can't wait to have this conversation with you to let's, let's talk about some of these things. So I want to, I want to do it from two different lenses. Let's start first from the lens of informally. And what I mean by that is oftentimes you're put in charge of a project or you're put in charge of some kind of effort at work. And some of the people who are on that effort are

Brian Nelson-Palmer (08:53.734)

older than you. And when I say older, let's say five years or more older than you. Oftentimes, you know, there's, there's a lot of ages we can talk about and in terms of what's older than you. But for you coming in, everyone, the person that you're managing or trying to get a performance from, you don't, you are in this situation. Let's start out with the scenario where you are not their boss. You do not have any authority over them. You really are coming to them. You're trying to get something done as the team lead for whatever this effort is.

So, Anne, in that situation, what what do you say to that person who's coming into that situation? and they got people five years or older and it's informal, they don't have any specific granted authority on that?

Ann Kerian (09:39.114)

Okay, they're just leading maybe a single project. They're not their boss at this time, but they're the one that really has to start the communication. And that is the way to do it. I mean, the scenario I just talked about. A lot of people, If you want somebody's full attention and respect, you need to realize that they have, that your rights kind of end where theirs begin. I mean, you have to come.

to a mutual agreement on how to communicate. And that is the basis for really any generation working together. So what I would say to you as somebody who would be doing that is that you would need to just set up time to have a conversation and ask a lot of questions. If you walk away from anything after this podcast, realize that if you ask questions as opposed to making statements,

It comes off a lot softer. It comes off a lot more open -minded rather than you just stating, here's what we need to do. We need to work, you know, we need to meet three times a week. I need it to be between five and seven, you know, and going on and you're just basically telling them what to do. There's no interpersonal communication. So I would tell you, you need to go and talk to that person and say, let's talk about

what's gonna work best. How do you like to be communicated with? I mean, there's only 800 different ways that we can communicate with each other now, right? I mean, some people sit next to each other at work, but still email. You know, I mean, we really need to talk more, but I understand that that's not always feasible, but say, I want, well, I just want you to go to my calendar to set this up. I would prefer you call me and we find a time.

I would prefer you email me several different times that we could have the first meeting for this project, or I prefer you go through my secretary. I prefer to do projects first thing in the morning. I want to make sure I get them in in my day and then I'll do my own work afterwards. There are so many different choices that if you communicate with that other person right from the beginning and find out the foundation of how this is going to work, that is going to be the best for you.

Ann Kerian (12:04.202)

And you have to be open -minded because if you ask a question, you have to be willing to adjust to the answer or else you might as well be making statements. Like if you're thinking, well, I'm only going to work on this Monday night, so I'm going to tell them we're going to work on Monday nights. Well, you can't go into it and say what day works for you because Monday's the only day works for you, right? So if you can be as flexible as possible, as open -minded as possible,

That is the best way to form that foundation for any type of project or anything that is happening in the workplace. So that's step one, for sure.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (12:40.23)

I think you kind of tie into one of the notes that I made for myself was to build rapport and show respect for that person because the reality is in many of these scenarios we're talking about, they're going to have more experience than you. So trying to come in and be an expert over them is really

Brian Nelson-Palmer (13:02.246)

not going to get you anywhere because they know and you know that they've got more experience than you do. Now that doesn't mean that they're better at it than you. You might be better at it than them, but they've got more experience. So acknowledging that experience and saying things like, I really appreciate your thoughts can go a long way and find that the other thing too with this is remember that you're on the same team in this, in this scenario.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (13:28.486)

It's an informal, you're the lead of the project, but you have no authority over them. So in this case, if you look at it like the two of you are sitting on the same side of the table and you're both looking at the project together side by side next to each other, you can use words like us and we, we need to do this, we need to do that. Maybe this is our, our effort and you're kind of in it together. That will probably go a long way toward that, the sort of underlying tone here, which is build that rapport and show respect.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (13:57.606)

for them that they're bringing to the table too.

Ann Kerian (14:02.57)

Yeah. So that's it. I love the point about saying us and we. That's great. And I think so we know we're going to establish that foundation at first. And then as we move on, it is so important to involve those people, because whatever you are feeling that this is making you anxious, you have to almost assume they're feeling the same way. Because I know I've said that before. Like if I go and I'm on a committee,

And it's the first meeting and we go in there and I look around and maybe I'm the only woman. Maybe I'm the oldest there. Maybe I'm the only one that doesn't have this side of experience or this type of degree. We all come in with that little bit of anxiety about what is gonna happen. So don't ever assume or be intimidated by somebody who's older because chances are they're feeling the same way. And that's something that we need to remember too.

So we've got to have the open communication. Don't be intimidated by someone. Try and involve different people. If you see, you know, if it's, let's say four people are on your committee and somebody's just not talking, my fault on that, which I've had to learn about myself over the years is that I am a talker, of course. I would think that people who weren't contributing and weren't talking maybe weren't interested or

just wanted to be on this committee to say they were on a committee, but didn't really want to do anything. I had this kind of unconscious bias that I've had to work on to just know and I find myself in meetings, I'll say, you know, Jenny, you haven't said anything yet. What are your thoughts on this? And then it's usually something profound because they've been such a good listener while the rest of the people are just listening to talk. They might be the one that's actually listening.

to have a great opinion about what's happening. And that could be of any age, of course. But again, establish that foundation, don't be intimidated, and make sure if you are the lead, like you said, that you are involving all the people because you're gonna be asked what they're contributing to it. And so for you to say, well, I don't know, they don't say anything, kind of falls on you. You need to keep track.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (16:18.694)

And I want to yes and you on this one. Yes, that's true. And one of the big mistakes that especially young and outgoing folks or even folks that are just younger than the people they're working with. Sometimes people are a little more introverted and in order to get anything out of an introvert, you have to pause long enough to let them speak and you have to not interrupt them when they're speaking because they will get to the point and they have some really great points.

but as an introvert, they're not gonna compete with you. If you're a little more extroverted, they're not gonna compete with you for the mic. They're gonna let you have it every time. And so if you want from them, you have to give them the space to get in there and they definitely will. So make sure you give them that space. And what that means is after you ask them a question, pause and let them answer without, don't fill the space, just pause, let it happen.

Ann Kerian (17:16.746)

That is a very good point. So I need to tell you this before I forget because my memory is short, right? I'm older. So I have to tell you this. So as part of my executive recruiting and I'm talking to people, I have a little acronym that I have on my computer and it's easy to use now for people because so many meetings are on Zooms. So nobody's going to see it, but it's W -A -I -T.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (17:21.83)

Go ahead. Yeah.

Ann Kerian (17:46.89)

WAIT right? And I learned this way back when I was studying to become a coach and it stands for Why Am I Talking? Because sometimes I feel like I need to stop because somebody else needs to get a word in here. I might have the best idea but I really need to realize am I talking too much when I'm trying to draw and motivate and energize others?

Ann Kerian (18:15.114)

Like you said, you need to give them the space to talk as well.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (18:19.334)

Yep. God, that's, I like that WAIT. Remember, why am I talking? my gosh. Ann I might borrow that at some point in the future. That's gold right there. I love that a lot. Put that sign on my laptop. That's a good one. And you know, in that same vein, one of the other notes I made to myself is leverage their strengths.

Ann Kerian (18:27.242)

You can have it free and clear.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (18:42.47)

And what I mean by that is many of you, you or you might be familiar with the, the, there's a book called strengths, finder 2 .0 or like strengths based leadership, this idea that, you know, meet people where their strengths are. And I think for the older generation, that is definitely true. I don't want to, I feel like when I say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, that's just making excuses for stuff. That's no longer valid. I don't, I don't buy into that phrase. However,

Brian Nelson-Palmer (19:12.07)

When, as, as you're dealing with a much older generation, finding the things that they are really good at, feel confident at, like to do, especially if you are in a situation where you don't have any formal authority over them, then leveraging your team with their strengths is going to be much easier to get more out of them because you're not asking for them to do something new or something different. So go for those new things. Go for the things that they're good at, leverage their strengths.

and see how have you approached similar challenges in the past, they might have approached some of these things before, but draw on their experience and draw on their strengths when you're in those groups with them.

Ann Kerian (19:57.226)

And one of the problems with that and bringing that out of people is that a lot of times you'll hear, well, that's how we always do it. You know, that's how we've always done it. I mean, how many of us have heard that in the workplace? Like, and we just want to scream when you're younger, you just want to scream because you're like, well, that's dumb. But that doesn't sound obviously very professional. You know, I have a filter now that maybe I didn't have at one point. I would have been, why are we doing that? You know?

But, and it's important though, because people who are oil are older and have been loyal are more likely the ones to say that because they've had success. A story of when, you know, you're trying, you're going through new computers and new computer training and new programs. And everybody who is not, you know, really savvy hates those days at work, right? I mean, if it, I remember it would come so far and everything that we've

changed with computers, but you have to learn the whole new system. Those are horrible days for people who are older and just, you know, are fine with what's in there. Like they just don't, why are we spending all this money on updating the computer? It's fine. Well, I said that 20 years ago, you know, look where we are now. So then you'll have somebody who's young and quick and really understands it and is savvy. And they'll be like, well, let me just show you. And you know, the chicka chicka and it's, it's already done. See, that's a quick way to do it.

Ann Kerian (21:25.866)

And I had a client in that scenario and he said, you know what? You have found a very fast way to do that. And I appreciate how far this has come because you're going to make a real difference in this company. He said, but if something goes wrong, you don't really know all the steps that it takes to get there because you found a shortcut. What I need you to respect and understand is the long way so that if something doesn't work,

you can probably go back and fix it or figure out where to tweak it. Where when you just take your shortcuts, you don't really have any idea. And I think that's a really good point. When you are dealing with somebody older, they probably know the history of things. Whereas you might be saying, well, this is faster. We should do it this way. Then we can meet our deadlines, move on to another project. But the older people are like the ones that are that school teacher.

that needed you to show out your work and you didn't understand why because you got the answer right. You're like, why do I need to show you when I know the answer? And the teacher would say, what? I need to know that you know how to get there. And that's important to older generations. My father, one of them, when he would buy me a bike, I had to know how it was put together. It was always a Schwinn.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (22:41.862)

I'm sure he's sorry.

Ann Kerian (22:51.403)

when I was little had to end that because they ranked first in consumer reports. I was probably the only five year old on the block that knew my bike ranked first on consumer reports. So it is the same type of thing. Older generations, people who've been around, people who are loyal will have much more respect for you. And hopefully vice versa, if you understood how you got the answer, because that's what they're looking for.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (23:16.134)

Yeah. You know, let's, so that was a lot about the informally. Let's step up to formally now, formal supervision now. And so let's say now you are, you've been promoted. You are the supervisor. You're the first round supervisor, the second round supervisor. You have people underneath you on the org chart that report to you that also are older than you. So what

Ann Kerian (23:24.842)

Sure. OK.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (23:43.334)

How does that change the dynamics? What advice do you have there, Ann?

Ann Kerian (23:49.898)

You know, as I was thinking about this prior to talking with you, I'm looking through and researching again, you know, older generations, things I've talked about probably over the last 10 years as I'm speaking. And there are just a few things we need to tweak just for the older generations. But mostly it's how we should treat anybody. So if you're looking at, well, I got to learn a whole new way to treat somebody. You know, why? Why? Just because they're older?

Not necessarily. If you approach them with the same type of respect that you would one of your peers, you probably aren't going to have issues. So now that it's formal and you're the supervisor, the same thing is finding and having that communication right out of the gate. Because if you just wait and wait until it comes up or wait until there's an issue, which so many managers do, it's a big mistake. You don't want the first time

that you meet somebody, talk to them face to face, maybe share a laugh about something to be when you have to call them in because something is wrong. You'd want to have that foundation, as you said, you know, getting in to getting to know them a little bit, have some kind of communication, some type of respect, just a foundation to talk to them and know where they're coming from, know what their goals are.

I was actually coaching somebody who this is the exact same scenario. And he brought the person in who was older. And he said to them, you know, let's start from the beginning. I mean, first of all, you know, record looks impeccable. Thank you for being so loyal. You know, you're the type of person that I hope we all can be, you know, kind of just, you know, complimented him over and over. And he's like, what are your career goals? And the guy was honest and he said,

I've been here a really long time and everything keeps changing. I really see myself probably retiring. And instead of being like, I don't have to deal with this guy. He was like, what? We want to make sure that we retain all your knowledge, everything you've got before you decide on that time. And whereas maybe somebody else would have said, OK, well, thanks for letting me know. We'll keep want to make this great. Let me know if

Ann Kerian (26:13.578)

HR can help you with that or when you want to leave. That would be just a horrible thing to do when you have this goldmine of information right in front of you and you don't know where that's going until you ask. Going back to asking questions. So for the question, when you are now the supervisor, immediately have that conversation, be open minded to what they are going to say, establish that type of respect. And One thing that I find that really, really works

is ask them if they'd be interested in mentoring someone. Now we have basically said, in not so many words, I value you. I know you know what you're doing. You've been here a long time. You have great experience. You're somebody I trust. Would you mind mentoring somebody who's coming up in the ranks? But all you've had to do is ask, will you mentor? And you've covered all those other compliments.

I do not know one person who would not feel great about being asked that, even if they feel they're overwhelmed and they don't know if they want to do it and that sort of thing. They know they're appreciated. and you get the most out of people by letting them know they are appreciated. So that also should be part of your first conversation. And if you don't have a mentoring program right now, why not? It really helps people. And another hint is that the best mentors skip a generation.

It's almost like it's a grandparent type mentoring rather than somebody who's in the generation right above you, because there can be conflict, right? That's child and parent conflict. Everybody has a conflict sometimes with their parents. But if you skip a generation when you're finding mentors, you will find it to be much more successful. So supervising informal or formal, have those conversations right away.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (28:03.75)

You know, and I like that one a lot because there's often a, the mentor point is really a good one because that, that sense of Often in the older generations, you are looking back, you're looking down, you're reflecting on your early career and your early days. Many of the folks that are of the older generation can remember the days when they were the younger generation. And oftentimes they have some really good

tips and so for the younger, for if you're managing older folks, one of one of my favorite phrases that I like to say is I look at my career like I am learning by committee. And what I mean by that is I look at it like you have something to learn from each of those people.

each of those mentors. So don't just have one, go find six grandparent age people that are way older than you or mentor much older mentors and learn from them. And in the very first, it's funny, in the first episode of this podcast ever, if you've never heard it, I actually tell the story about where Learning by Committee comes from. And it's a quick five minute story, but it's just such a profound thing about how you can learn from different folks. So.

that leveraging the mentors in a way of getting knowledge from multiple people helps you level up so much faster by gaining from that experience. And honestly, they're probably going to enjoy it. They wouldn't agree to kind of mentor you even formally or informally, even if you don't have a mentor program, they wouldn't agree to do it if they didn't want to do it. So that's a, that's a really good point. I like that one, Ann.

Ann Kerian (29:47.466)

Yeah, and a lot of times people will come, well, how do we retain our employees? I do recruiting as well. And well, how do we keep people? And so many people are having a hard time in the workforce right now with people retiring, especially health care, nurses retiring. And one of the things I'll ask is, do you have mentor program? Do you have people connecting with each other and feeling a sense of community? And I know some corporations are like, that's just nothing.

I do, we don't really do that, but I will tell you it makes a huge difference. And you're not wasting money on training and then they're leaving. I mean, you are keeping people there who want to be there. And once you have that respect between generations, I mean, that is just a huge hurdle to everybody getting along. And the only way to do that, like you said, is to have a lot of different members or mentors. You might learn something great from hopefully most, if not all of them, but you might also learn.

how not to treat people because I have been in those environments as well where I'm like, if I was a manager, I would never talk to somebody like that or I would never, you know, close the door on them or whatever the scenario was. And I have to tell you that's helped me just as much as the good bosses and managers have for sure.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (31:05.062)

You know, and that leads right into one of my thoughts that I had on this topic when you're formally in there. One of the mistakes that I watched a lot of other young managers make is they asserted their position during the day to day. Even if it was informally or offhanded, they would remind people that I'm your boss. I'm your whatever, your supervisor. Here's the deal. They know that you're their boss.

So there's no reason to rub their face in it or, and like you, you never have to say it ever because they know it and you know it. And so it actually, they know that you're the boss technically, but the reality is we talked about, you know, earning their respect and stuff. You're not going to tell them by tell by starting something with, well, because I'm your boss, I'm going to do something that's never going to get you any further.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (32:00.646)

than it would have otherwise. That doesn't help. It actually hurts in a lot of scenarios. So instead, earlier we talked about using the terms us and we, talk about how you work with them. If you ever meet their family or you meet their friends or you meet their somebody, if they introduce you as their boss, that's cool. But if you meet them, all you say is, hey, I work with such and such and they're so good or they're great at their job or whatever, you work with them. We never need to talk about the fact that you're the boss.

Ann Kerian (32:06.442)

Great.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (32:28.454)

because if it ever comes up in a situation where it needs to be there, it's already understood.

Ann Kerian (32:35.146)

Right. And those, quite honestly, are some ugly conversations. You know, if it has to be started, if it has to be started with because I'm your boss or because I make the big bucks or whatever they want to say, they're demeaning you right away to start that. Who wants to start a conversation like that? I say the same thing. If you are somebody that has to announce yourself, then you don't have the kind of respect that you probably need to be in that position. And unfortunately,

people who are really, really good at their job, like physically doing whatever their job may be, does not mean that they're gonna be a good manager. Because they don't take classes in college called, you know, dealing with difficult people 101, or dealing with older people who I don't agree with, you know, at the 200 level. I mean, there's nothing like that. And that's where you're gonna have the most problems. I know you're great at your job and you got promoted.

good for you, but if you don't treat me like a human being, I am not gonna wanna work here. And what you need to realize is that the number one reason that people leave their jobs is not because of money, it's not because they haven't been promoted, it is because of their immediate supervisor. So when you take over that position and you are now,

the immediate supervisor of people who are older than you and you are saying that's a problem. You are having a direct impact on their career, on their life. And as we talked about, we're looking for mentors, we're looking for ways. I mentioned the gentleman who said, well, I'm just gonna retire. So now you have somebody who's under you, you know where their mind is. They wanna know the company solid. They wanna know they're getting their 401k. I mean, they are coming to work for a whole different reason.

than the 20 year old who's under you, who's like, I'm probably just gonna be here for three years and then I wanna move on to bigger and better. If we're lucky, if the company is even lucky, people switch so often now. So you've got loyalty and you have to know how to manage that at the same time as you have new people who want the best and wanna move on. And that's difficult for you. You have to learn how to do that.

Ann Kerian (34:54.41)

because that's what makes a really good manager and being empathetic for both ends of that spectrum is at the top of that list for sure.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (35:04.39)

Yep. Such a good point. And along those lines, one of the

Ann Kerian (35:07.818)

Did I answer your question? I'm trying to, did I answer your question?

Brian Nelson-Palmer (35:14.246)

I mean, I think so. Yeah, we're talking about the formal things. Yeah, I think we're there. And as long as, and while we're on this topic, one of the things that came to mind for me was your authority in their eyes is a job function and job description, not because you're better than them. And that's, I...

Brian Nelson-Palmer (35:39.494)

I mean, I flashback on in my scenario where I was the showroom manager and I was in this in this store with folks that were had been doing it much longer than I do and were older than I was. And the reality was by the numbers, according to those metrics, I was better than them. However, even though the numbers might say that people of the older generation will still not believe it, they will still not think it in many cases. And

Brian Nelson-Palmer (36:08.582)

It's not your job. I mean, they can look at the numbers. They can see that you're better than them too. But you telling them that, Hey, I'm better than you at this. Like your, your authority is going to come from that, that position that you have, but it's your job. Once you become the supervisor, it's your job to set the direction of the team and make team decisions, even if they're hard and do that.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (36:36.486)

and then communicate them with these people and let them know what they're part of these decisions are. But here's the key. Don't you are no longer doing their job with them. Your job is to be the supervisor now. So your job changed. So just because you were at one point better than them and got promoted.

potentially if that's why you got promoted, who knows? There's a lot of reasons people get promoted, but if you're in that position above them and you are very good at doing their job now, now you've got a different job. So don't go back and do their job. I think that's a huge mistake is people try to be better at the job than the people that they supervise when the reality is everybody wins if you're better at being the supervisor and getting your goals met from the team,

instead of just because you could do it better than they could.

Ann Kerian (37:34.73)

Right. And let's be honest, being a manager or a supervisor of older people, not easy. Of younger people, not easy. Of people the same age, not easy. None of it is easy. So this cannot, you cannot blame this on, well, they're older and they don't listen to me and, you know, they don't respect me because I'm younger, because it's not easy no matter what. And you know what, people who are older, who are upset that you got promoted because maybe they're on their way out, who knows why? That wasn't their decision. So shame on them, seriously. That is nothing you need to worry about because I'll hear that a lot too. Well, they're all upset because I got this job and they didn't and they wanted it and stuff. That's their issue and you can't do anything about it.

If they want to take that up with the hiring people, the HR people, they can do that. And if it gets to the point where you have to have a conversation about it, so be it. Because I even said there, I was in a scenario where somebody else wanted the job and I came in and I got it. And when I arrived there, everybody was mad because they all wanted this other person to get the job. So they were less than friendly because, you know, they wanted to obviously make this other person feel good.

And I had to get to the point where I was like, I can't take that on. I'm not going to turn down a job or turn down a promotion to better my family because somebody else wanted it who was older or more experienced. They didn't get it. So you cannot do anything about that type of criticism. So you know what? Do not even try. That's their problem. It's not your problem. And you would be better to just ignore it all for sure and move forward with what you believe were the reasons you got that job. Because everybody's told, right? They probably told you, I am giving you this promotion because I believe that you have great ideas for our future. I think you have the educational background with new technology that others don't have. I need you to share that. You need to remember the reason you were hired and focus on those things. Just like you said earlier, Brian, people need to remember what they bring to the table.

so they can focus on those things. People stay in their lanes and everybody is a lot happier. And if they want to improve, great. But to take things out on each other because of politics, it's a bad idea.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (40:15.462)

Totally agree. Now, Ann we've been talking a lot about many of these points. And you know, if you go back and listen and I didn't tell you what the topic was today, many of the bits of advice that we gave would probably apply to older people managing younger people too. So let's hone in specifically kind of in a rapid fire way. I had a few ideas that I was thinking about that are very specific to younger people managing.

older generations. And I think you started it off great with the make an appointment versus just drop in older, older generation likes you to make an appointment and the younger generation is fine with you just dropping in. And my counter to that is I think that's true of the younger generation, unless it's a formal or a very important discussion, then they're probably going to appreciate the appointment as well. So they can prepare for it. But for anything that's not a need, preparation is not needed. I think they would.

So I think that's a good starting point. What else comes to mind for you on specifically for younger folks managing the older generation?

Ann Kerian (41:23.146)

Well, I think it is really important that, yes, we did say that these are tangibles that you can take away, okay? You need to obviously make those appointments. You need to be open -minded about talking to them. You need to find out what their strengths are, what their career goals are. You might think they are gonna retire in a year or two and that they have no intention of doing that. You can then obviously ask them if they want to mentor as we talked about as well.

That makes it feel inclusive. That makes them feel valued. That might not be, that is something different. You probably wouldn't ask a really young person to do that. Make sure then that that mentorship even skips a generation as we talked about. And at the very end of the day, give them the respect that you would want in return. It's more important probably with the older generation because you are.

sort of bucking all the things they've learned and you might want them to race it all and start over. So you're asking a lot of people. And I've had a lot of people who are hiring position, they'll want to hire someone younger. And they'll say, because then I can teach them how to do it right. They don't want to hire somebody older because they're going to have to teach them over again. But then you're losing out on so much by looking at it that way. So be open -minded, be respectful, do the appointments, do the mentorship.

I'm trying to think of other things for sure, but please reach out if you have any more questions because it can work. It's not just the older generation that makes it difficult. It's just human beings and generation. We can be difficult.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (42:57.574)

Absolutely. And you know, I've got, I've got three ideas that I want to bounce off you Ann as I was thinking about this one, three things came to mind for me. One, as the younger generation, one of the things you need to avoid is any of the latest trends segregation that can happen. And what I mean by that is

Let them opt out of whatever that conversation is, but don't opt them out. So what I mean by that is like, Let's say you're talking about Snapchat or BeReal or one of these brand new apps that all the young kids are using these days. Instead of sometimes I've heard younger folks say, well, this is, you know, this is what the young folks are doing these days. And you say it in a way that kind of, but wants to verbally wants to butt these people out because they're older. So they're not going to be interested. Instead.

start to explain it to them and be like, they said, what's BeReal? And you can be like, instead of, you wouldn't know younger, you could say, well, it's a new app where you take photos, you know, and be real about what's happening right then. Have you ever used it before and ask them and then let them be the one to say, I'm not into that stuff or I don't believe in social media. And they're probably going to get on the negative train and tell you all the reasons why they don't like it and whatever. But what's important is that you as the young person didn't tell them that they're too old. Don't do that.

That's the mistake, I think, for them. And so that was one. My next one was Start out addressing them with the Mr. or Ms. or Mrs. title when you first meet them and first work with them. And that's a respect thing. So if you're working with Ben Smith, if the guy's name is Ben Smith, you start out calling him Mr. Ben or Mr. Smith, and you stick with that until they say,

Brian Nelson-Palmer (44:43.59)

You can call me Ben or you can call me, you know, until they change it from you, just use that as your default mode is use that Mr or Miss title because that's let them be the one to kind of make that selection. And that seems like such an insignificant thing, but that that establishes that respect we were talking about when we earlier we said build rapport and show respect that starts out showing the respect right up front. Even if what you're going to say isn't nice or isn't good news.

you still give them that that respect of Mr. Or Ms. Or Mrs. Any thoughts on that one? And have you come across that at all? Or do you think that makes

Ann Kerian (45:19.402)

Well, you know what you'll get on that, though. You know what you'll get when you do that. You'll say and I, you know, you'll get this because people have heard it before. They'll say, OK, Mr. Smith. And They'll say, I'm not Mr. Smith. My dad was Mr. Smith. You know, like they find it almost like you're already saying you're old because you wouldn't say Mr. Smith to the 20 year old.

Ann Kerian (45:47.114)

You know, so they're I mean, because I even when I go somewhere and they'll say, ma 'am, I'm like, ma 'am, really? Do I look like ma 'am? Because my grandma was ma 'am, you know, and I know it's trying to be nice. And I appreciate you saying it, Brian, but I think you should be consistent with that. Like if you're not going to say it to somebody younger, you probably don't need to say it to somebody older, because by segregating that just to older people, you're basically telling them they're older. Something to think about.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (46:15.622)

You know, that's a really good point. That's true. And I would say that, and then my thought is, okay, well then it makes sense to ask them what they would prefer to be called. Should I, what would you like me to call you? Is it, I mean, cause sometimes it's a name pronunciation. You need to pronounce their name right anyway. So, hey, what's Benj? Is it Benj? Should I call you Ben? And that's to everybody. Yeah, that's a good point.

Ann Kerian (46:44.554)

And that's where we go with asking questions. At the beginning of this, I say, if you learn nothing else from this whole conversation is to just ask questions. Don't assume, don't assume what they want to be called. Don't assume what their goals are at work. Don't assume that they're on their way out. Don't assume that they don't want to know what be real is. Ask questions. And it's so much more engaging than just making those statements. My dad was a judge and it was John Kearian.

Ann Kerian (47:14.698)

And you would, you know, people would say, well, I call you John, do I call you Mr. Curian? And you'd be like, no, call me Judge. I mean, you just never know. So you might as well ask.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (47:23.526)

Yep, that's a good point. And my last little thought was about tech gaps. And you mentioned new technology earlier, Anne. And this is one where I personally feel like it's no longer acceptable to say, I don't like computers, or I'm not good with technology, because the reality is it's not going anywhere. So saying that is kind of a defeatist thing. I don't think that's good. However,

respecting the fact that people need training and time to learn these new skills, you can't look down at your nose at somebody just because they don't immediately pick up the app or whatever the latest software is that you're bringing in or they don't get it. So start with the training and give people a chance to do the training and really try it first and save that assumption of, you know, they're older.

Ann Kerian (48:13.13)

Thank you.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (48:20.006)

they're not gonna get it. Save that until they prove you right by having the training and then they still aren't able to get it. What do you think about the tech gap thing?

Ann Kerian (48:32.17)

Yeah, I mean, it is a quick way to insult somebody, you know, honestly. I have two kids, my older boys are in their 20s, and they'll be like, Mom, just don't touch it. Just let me show you. You know, and they'll get really aggravated with me if I ask certain questions or they'll say, well, I've told you, I've told you how to do this before. And I was like, you know, stop. I taught you how to use a spoon. So you, you know, give me some little relief here that I don't quite understand this as quickly as you do.

Ann Kerian (48:59.242)

And so, and that's a meme by the way, I can't take credit for that one. But it's just very important because it is somewhat insulting because you're again, you're basically saying that they're old because you're like, well, you know, I'm sure you haven't heard of this or I bet you don't know how to do this. And I don't know, maybe I'm naive, but I think new things and new programs are hard for a lot of different people. And I hear I'm not tech savvy from a lot of people. And I think I even say it myself.

But when I'm doing it, I know I just want what I'm saying is I'm not tech savvy, meaning don't don't skip steps. Like don't say, OK, well, you know, when you get to that place, you just click on whatever you click on. See, well, what you didn't tell me is that I should obviously know that when I get there, there's a drop down menu that then leads to my name that leads. You know, there's you skip a lot of steps when you think somebody understands and that.

I guess that goes back to what we're talking about is that we're the old teachers that want to know how you got to where you got. And if you have to look at older generations, does anybody think of that? Would your teacher just be okay with you saying, yeah, well, here's your laptop, good luck? No, and the best places for learning training than the best things that I've had is they provide you with a template.

If we've learned nothing about society, it's that we're all so different and that neurodiversity is, you know, talked about all the time. We all learn differently. Don't just expect me to go home and read a book and do it because I might learn better if I come in and I hear somebody or I might learn better by watching. So keep in mind that not only are you teaching people who are older, but you're teaching people who are different in learning styles.

And to be a good manager, to have a good company, you have to realize what the differences there are too. Like I said, not easy. You've got a lot of different people and a lot of different learning abilities and ages that you're responsible for.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (51:05.478)

Yeah. You know, and let's let's switch gears here because you've shared a lot of these really good stories and I'm curious, what does this mean? This topic area, what does this mean for you personally? Is there a story there on that?

Ann Kerian (51:19.882)

Well, personally, I see people who are not keeping their jobs or they're not getting a job because now they feel they are too old. Now, there is an example. I was consulting for a bank and one of the women that they found out after a while, she was transposing the numbers. Okay. I do that every once in a while, scares me to death when it happens. You know, I'm like,

my gosh, I wrote the phone number down wrong or whatever it is. Never had those thoughts when I was younger. So it's very scary. But obviously somebody like that, that's not going to work. But to be in a work environment and ignore those who have that type of knowledge that they can bring and share with others, it is so self satisfying to help somebody else. When I was living in Florida and I worked at the television station there, I was probably six years into my career.

And on the weekends, I anchored the weekends and I got to, I had the opportunity to, I didn't have to. I raised my bar to this. I would take care of the interns from the University of West Florida. We're in Pensacola. And I loved it. And those interns now, I mean, one of them is this accomplished author. She's on national TV doing crime stories. She's amazing. Some of the others are still in television.

others went on and became lawyers. I mean, there's a part of them that will always, part of me that will always cheer for them. And so if you're young and you think you're just going in to battle people that are older and they don't want you there, that is not true. And maybe they're a little jealous, right? Life goes too fast. I had an opportunity where I worked with a law firm and this is a good story. I'll make it short. I know we're getting long, but.

I had an opportunity where I worked with a law firm and the woman that I coached, they thought she was miserable there. But after coaching her and getting down to the bottom of it and the crux of it, she was just jealous. She was like the oldest one there. She couldn't go out with everybody. She'd always hear them talking. And she did not feel part of that community. She didn't feel part of that work family, which we spent more time with our work family than we do our own family. And she didn't feel part of it.

Ann Kerian (53:39.754)

So then we did somewhat of a mentoring program where she would have coffee once a week with one of the younger staff, kind of fill them in on how things have worked over the years, listen to their opinions. And it was a beautiful relationship. So I guess I feel strongly about this conversation because I know it can work. I know people can work together and I would never want somebody to lose a job or not get a job just because of their age, despite what laws say, you can get around those, it still happens.

At least I think it does. And so I just would never really want that to be the case. I don't want people to give up on people.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (54:18.182)

You know, and on this topic, are there any other resources that you would recommend when it comes to, you know, managing people that are older than you?

Ann Kerian (54:30.698)

Well, I certainly would talk to your HR and use that human resources person as a huge resource. They are being updated on the most statistics about people in the workforce, what we can do to help them, what we can do to help all different kinds of people. I mean, just, you know, we have everything at our fingertips. Go in and Google and say, how do I work with an older person? You can type, how do I work with an older person who drives me crazy? And you'll probably get like.

10 pages of stuff, you know? It's out there. Don't think that you can't do it or that you don't want to do it. Like you don't, for heaven forbid, don't not accept a position because you don't, you think it'll be difficult. There are tons of resources out there. You just have to look and it certainly doesn't take long in this day and age as you well know, because you all know, you know, technology better than we do.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (55:20.742)

Yeah. And what's well, I agree with that. And I'll drop any resources that I have. I'll drop those in the show notes and some of the things. And, you know, and you mentioned one of the things I am going to put in the show notes that I think is helpful is the different generations. Sometimes we assume that everybody knows what year everybody is. But what is Generation X? What is the millennials? What is the

Brian Nelson-Palmer (55:45.606)

You know, these things, I think that's really important to actually specify that. So please open up your show notes and take a look at that too, so that you're clear on this. And the yes and I want to do for you, and I love what you said is find those resources and my yes and is yes, do that and find the resources that are in the format that you're going to like. Because for example, I'm an audio guy. So if I can find podcasts or audio books that are on this topic, I am more likely to pick those up.

than I am blogs or especially books that you would have to read a physical copy of. So whatever your flavor is, find the resources that are your flavor because they're going to be much more likely to actually use those. And like I said, it's learning by committee. So you're not looking for the one gold nugget to rule them all. You're looking to learn a little bit from this episode and maybe there's other podcast episodes. Like use those resources, but learn by committee and get something from all of those resources.

Ann Kerian (56:50.89)

I 100 % agree. I could tell you it's in this book and that book, but if you're not a reader, it's not going to be interesting to you. 100%.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (57:01.369)

Well, so, Ann here's what I love. I love that you have spent so much time working with folks and coaching people on this topic and really, clearly it comes from a personal experience and a personal love and you've managed to transpose that into business and working with your clients. And so,

I love the personal stories that you bring to this thing. And I really appreciate you sharing some of those little nuggets with us here today. Because I think that's it's even if you many of the things that we talked about today, people you're you listening probably might have heard that once before, but sometimes you got to hear it a few times, even even though you already knew it. And so this this was great. So Ann thanks so much for for joining us today and talking about that.

Ann Kerian (57:52.97)

Thank you, it was my pleasure. I am honored to be on your podcast. So I wish you out there all the best and I really thank you, Brian, for the opportunity.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (58:04.518)

Yeah, and where's the, if they want to find you or keep in touch with you online somewhere, where should they go?

Ann Kerian (58:12.362)

They should go to my website is probably the easiest, which is just AnnKerian .com, A -N -N -K -E -R -I -A -N .com. I will be very attentive and responsive and I would love to hear from you.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (58:27.686)

Absolutely. And for you tuning in, do you have a friend or a colleague who manages people older than them? If so, would you share this link to this episode specifically with them? Because I know Anne and I would love to know that our conversation touched people that are actually facing this exact scenario. And I know there are a lot of folks who are facing this scenario. So it would be

Thank you.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (58:56.422)

such a wonderful thought that, and not to mention the interesting conversation you can have with them, because everybody who's managed people older than them, some of the best stories I've had with coworkers have been about this topic right here. my gosh, that I shared with you, that showroom and those, the folks that were significantly older than me and managing those folks, man, some of those conversations are really good ones, whether it's funny or tearful or whatever it is.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (59:22.246)

the conversation you can have from sharing this episode with them might be really fun. So I hope you'll do that and share this episode and thanks for liking and subscribing. And I do a lot with my email list. So join in on that fun. If you want to get on, get in on some of the best of what I send out and if I can help you or your team with incredibly practical tips, leveling up your productivity, please reach out because I love sharing productivity gladiator with you.

Because together, we're going to change your life. That's a wrap.